Comments on: Top 20 MLB Free Agent Signings http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/ Hot Stove New York is the one-stop destination for New York sports fans. Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:19:16 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Jeff Zachowski http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/comment-page-1/#comment-3328 Jeff Zachowski Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:00:44 +0000 http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/?p=11479#comment-3328 Pat the Bat is obviously taking a Tortoise v. Hare approach to the 2009 season. Burrell 2009 AVG/OBP/SLG: .225/ .319/ .350 Ibanez 2009 AVG/OBP/SLG: .386/ .438/ .864 Burrell 2009 OPS+: 72 Ibanez 2009 OPS+: 221 Burrell 2009 EqA: .245 Ibanez 2009 EqA: .394 Burrell 2009 WARP1/ WARP2/ WARP3: -0.0/ .0/ -1.7 Ibanez 2009 WARP1/ WARP2/ WARP3: 1.1/ 1.1/ 1.4 Stay tuned... Pat the Bat is obviously taking a Tortoise v. Hare approach to the 2009 season.

Burrell 2009 AVG/OBP/SLG: .225/ .319/ .350
Ibanez 2009 AVG/OBP/SLG: .386/ .438/ .864

Burrell 2009 OPS+: 72
Ibanez 2009 OPS+: 221

Burrell 2009 EqA: .245
Ibanez 2009 EqA: .394

Burrell 2009 WARP1/ WARP2/ WARP3: -0.0/ .0/ -1.7
Ibanez 2009 WARP1/ WARP2/ WARP3: 1.1/ 1.1/ 1.4

Stay tuned…

]]> By: Jeff Zachowski http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/comment-page-1/#comment-3042 Jeff Zachowski Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:25:37 +0000 http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/?p=11479#comment-3042 Love for baseball card stats? You're the stat man. Let me know which team your calculator tells you will win the NL East so I can save myself the misery of another September free fall. As for Ibanez, the proof will be in the pudding, I suppose. Love for baseball card stats? You’re the stat man. Let me know which team your calculator tells you will win the NL East so I can save myself the misery of another September free fall. As for Ibanez, the proof will be in the pudding, I suppose.

]]> By: FireJoeMorgan http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/comment-page-1/#comment-3038 FireJoeMorgan Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:08:44 +0000 http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/?p=11479#comment-3038 "I think a .300 average still means something in this sport." Raul Ibanez has hit .300 or better exactly once in his illustrious career. If you're going to base your evaluations solely on batting average, you should drool over someone other than a guy who's sitting at .286 for his career. I hear the Dodgers are trying to move Juan Pierre and his horrid contract. And he's a .300 career hitter! Three times the player Burrell is!! "I have a lot of respect for FireJoeMorgan.com, but little for your argument and even less for your snide attitude." MY argument is that YOUR argument (Ibanez is twice the player Burrell is, remember?) is ridiculous. And it is. By every measure possible, except batting average (which is, apparently in your mind, more important than anything else). As for the attitude, what can I say? I've never been tactful at telling people they're wrong. Especially when they're REALLY wrong and REALLY stubborn about it. But please, don't let me get in the way of your love for baseball card stats... “I think a .300 average still means something in this sport.”

Raul Ibanez has hit .300 or better exactly once in his illustrious career. If you’re going to base your evaluations solely on batting average, you should drool over someone other than a guy who’s sitting at .286 for his career. I hear the Dodgers are trying to move Juan Pierre and his horrid contract. And he’s a .300 career hitter! Three times the player Burrell is!!

“I have a lot of respect for FireJoeMorgan.com, but little for your argument and even less for your snide attitude.”

MY argument is that YOUR argument (Ibanez is twice the player Burrell is, remember?) is ridiculous. And it is. By every measure possible, except batting average (which is, apparently in your mind, more important than anything else). As for the attitude, what can I say? I’ve never been tactful at telling people they’re wrong. Especially when they’re REALLY wrong and REALLY stubborn about it. But please, don’t let me get in the way of your love for baseball card stats…

]]> By: Jeff Zachowski http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/comment-page-1/#comment-3034 Jeff Zachowski Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:54:12 +0000 http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/?p=11479#comment-3034 I wasn't referring specifically to 2003. Burrell's career has been peppered with trips to the pine due to lack of production and/or poor work ethic. A quick Google search yields that as recently as this passed September Manuel sent Pat the Bat to the bench for his .167 average over the span of his previous 107 at-bats. I'm not a Phillies fan, so I'm not an expert on the calendar of the guy's travails. I have a lot of respect for FireJoeMorgan.com, but little for your argument and even less for your snide attitude. I'm a fan of guys who make contact. I think a .300 average still means something in this sport. So sue me. You can take your Jason Giambis and Adam Dunns and Pat Burrells and go to town. I'll take Raul Ibanez, sorry. At the end of the day, I think the Phillies will take Ibanez's .290 BA, 25 HRs, and 110 RBI, and as a Mets fan, I wish he were still in Seattle. I wasn’t referring specifically to 2003. Burrell’s career has been peppered with trips to the pine due to lack of production and/or poor work ethic. A quick Google search yields that as recently as this passed September Manuel sent Pat the Bat to the bench for his .167 average over the span of his previous 107 at-bats. I’m not a Phillies fan, so I’m not an expert on the calendar of the guy’s travails. I have a lot of respect for FireJoeMorgan.com, but little for your argument and even less for your snide attitude. I’m a fan of guys who make contact. I think a .300 average still means something in this sport. So sue me. You can take your Jason Giambis and Adam Dunns and Pat Burrells and go to town. I’ll take Raul Ibanez, sorry. At the end of the day, I think the Phillies will take Ibanez’s .290 BA, 25 HRs, and 110 RBI, and as a Mets fan, I wish he were still in Seattle.

]]> By: FireJoeMorgan http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/comment-page-1/#comment-3031 FireJoeMorgan Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:04:18 +0000 http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/?p=11479#comment-3031 Two seasons ago? Do you mean 2003 when Burrell hit .209? If so, you're correct that he had a bad year (though incorrect about the manager--Bowa was around through 2004). Are you suggesting that Burrell's 2003 season dooms him permanently to a "half the player of Ibanez" characterization? Man, there's some serious qualitative analysis going on over here... And please avoid the strawman "he's a gem!" argument in the future. This discussion is about whether Pat Burrell is better than Raul Ibanez, not the independent merits of either. Two seasons ago? Do you mean 2003 when Burrell hit .209? If so, you’re correct that he had a bad year (though incorrect about the manager–Bowa was around through 2004). Are you suggesting that Burrell’s 2003 season dooms him permanently to a “half the player of Ibanez” characterization? Man, there’s some serious qualitative analysis going on over here…

And please avoid the strawman “he’s a gem!” argument in the future. This discussion is about whether Pat Burrell is better than Raul Ibanez, not the independent merits of either.

]]> By: Jeff Zachowski http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/comment-page-1/#comment-3030 Jeff Zachowski Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:23:30 +0000 http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/?p=11479#comment-3030 So were you leading the cheering section two seasons ago when Burrell was hovering around the mendoza line and Charlie Manuel was reluctant to even put the guy in the lineup? You're right. He's a gem. I smell an AL East repeat! So were you leading the cheering section two seasons ago when Burrell was hovering around the mendoza line and Charlie Manuel was reluctant to even put the guy in the lineup? You’re right. He’s a gem. I smell an AL East repeat!

]]> By: FireJoeMorgan http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/comment-page-1/#comment-3020 FireJoeMorgan Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:02:36 +0000 http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/?p=11479#comment-3020 Jeff Zachowski: "Ibanez is twice the player that Burrell is..." Burrell Career AVG/OBP/SLG: .257 / .367 / .485 Ibanez Career AVG/OBP/SLG: .286 / .346 / .472 Burrell Career OPS+: 119 Ibanez Career OPS+: 113 Burrell Career EqA: .291 Ibanez Career EqA: .286 Burrell Careeer WARP: 43.2 Ibanez Career WARP: 37.3 You may go to lots of games and buy lots of "Ibanez #1!" foam fingers, but you're obviously not paying attention to the important stuff. By every measure imaginable Burrell is the better player. And he'll be significantly cheaper for the next 2 years! Jeff Zachowski: “Ibanez is twice the player that Burrell is…”

Burrell Career AVG/OBP/SLG: .257 / .367 / .485
Ibanez Career AVG/OBP/SLG: .286 / .346 / .472

Burrell Career OPS+: 119
Ibanez Career OPS+: 113

Burrell Career EqA: .291
Ibanez Career EqA: .286

Burrell Careeer WARP: 43.2
Ibanez Career WARP: 37.3

You may go to lots of games and buy lots of “Ibanez #1!” foam fingers, but you’re obviously not paying attention to the important stuff. By every measure imaginable Burrell is the better player. And he’ll be significantly cheaper for the next 2 years!

]]> By: Jeff Zachowski http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/comment-page-1/#comment-3012 Jeff Zachowski Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:08:42 +0000 http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/?p=11479#comment-3012 bob - Ibanez and Abreu are both lefty batters. When you make an obvious mistake like that, it shows me that A) You haven't watched these two players enough to compare, and B) You've given me no reason to take anything you say seriously. Also, a year ago this time, Pat Burrell was Public Enemy #1 in Philadelphia, so to call him a fan favorite. Again, you clearly troll the web and spew garbage without ever watching an actual baseball game. Pat Burrell is a .257 career hitter. His average last year sank to .250. The fact that anyone can talk this guy up is unbelievable. Ibanez meanwhile registered more than 100 RBI last season for the third consecutive season (Burrell's only managed 100+ RBIs twice in his entire career). He also posted career bests in hits and doubles, so to state that "he's not just over the hill, he's well over it" is the height of ignorance. Moving to the bandbox that is Citizen's Bank Park, his numbers will only increase. Clearly you can argue the years and the money. Three years is a lot for a 36-year-old player. But you can't compare the two players talent-wise. Ibanez is twice the player that Burrell is, and maybe now that he'll be playing in a larger market, fans around baseball will begin to realize it. bob – Ibanez and Abreu are both lefty batters. When you make an obvious mistake like that, it shows me that A) You haven’t watched these two players enough to compare, and B) You’ve given me no reason to take anything you say seriously. Also, a year ago this time, Pat Burrell was Public Enemy #1 in Philadelphia, so to call him a fan favorite. Again, you clearly troll the web and spew garbage without ever watching an actual baseball game.

Pat Burrell is a .257 career hitter. His average last year sank to .250. The fact that anyone can talk this guy up is unbelievable. Ibanez meanwhile registered more than 100 RBI last season for the third consecutive season (Burrell’s only managed 100+ RBIs twice in his entire career). He also posted career bests in hits and doubles, so to state that “he’s not just over the hill, he’s well over it” is the height of ignorance. Moving to the bandbox that is Citizen’s Bank Park, his numbers will only increase.

Clearly you can argue the years and the money. Three years is a lot for a 36-year-old player. But you can’t compare the two players talent-wise. Ibanez is twice the player that Burrell is, and maybe now that he’ll be playing in a larger market, fans around baseball will begin to realize it.

]]> By: Troy Patterson http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/comment-page-1/#comment-3011 Troy Patterson Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:19:20 +0000 http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/?p=11479#comment-3011 Ibanez was possibly the worst signing this year. According to fangraphs.com Burrell would have supplied an extra win over replacement compared to Ibanez. So the Phillies paid 3 years and many more millions and got worse. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/replacing-burrell-with-ibanez Ibanez was possibly the worst signing this year. According to fangraphs.com Burrell would have supplied an extra win over replacement compared to Ibanez. So the Phillies paid 3 years and many more millions and got worse.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/replacing-burrell-with-ibanez

]]> By: Kurt http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/2009/02/19/top-20-mlb-free-agent-signings/comment-page-1/#comment-3007 Kurt Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:46:02 +0000 http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/?p=11479#comment-3007 The best signings should be value versus cost, I think. Paying 23MM for a guy tat effects 35 games a year and only will give you at best 25 QS if he's a CY Young pitcher, means that he will really effect only 1/6 of the Yankee games, he will also get out pitched based on probability and statistics atleast 1/5 of the days, so really he is a difference maker in only 20 games and add into the type of offense in the Bronx and do you really think that 23MM for a guy that is equla to (pulling a number out of my bottom) +3 or +4 wins is worth it? The TOP 20 signings should not be based on dollar but production to cost, so guys like this should be on the list... Griffey @ 2MM x 1 year Abreu @ 5MM x 1 year Burrell @ 8MM x 2 years Mi. Sweeney @ league minimum for minor league deal Ga. Anderson @ 1-2MM x 1 year (probable contract) An. Jones @ league minimum for the Rangers Pettitte @ 5.5MM x 1 year Blake @ 5.83MM x 3 years Giambi @ 4.5MM x 1 year Just as some examples! The best signings should be value versus cost, I think. Paying 23MM for a guy tat effects 35 games a year and only will give you at best 25 QS if he’s a CY Young pitcher, means that he will really effect only 1/6 of the Yankee games, he will also get out pitched based on probability and statistics atleast 1/5 of the days, so really he is a difference maker in only 20 games and add into the type of offense in the Bronx and do you really think that 23MM for a guy that is equla to (pulling a number out of my bottom) +3 or +4 wins is worth it?

The TOP 20 signings should not be based on dollar but production to cost, so guys like this should be on the list…

Griffey @ 2MM x 1 year
Abreu @ 5MM x 1 year
Burrell @ 8MM x 2 years
Mi. Sweeney @ league minimum for minor league deal
Ga. Anderson @ 1-2MM x 1 year (probable contract)
An. Jones @ league minimum for the Rangers
Pettitte @ 5.5MM x 1 year
Blake @ 5.83MM x 3 years
Giambi @ 4.5MM x 1 year

Just as some examples!

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